‘Outlander’ Star David Berry on Lord John Grey’s Return & Fears for Jamie

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[Warning: The below contains MAJOR spoilers for Season 6, Episode 5 of Outlander, “Give Me Liberty.”]

Outlander welcomed some familiar faces back into the fold with its Season 6 episode, “Give Me Liberty,” which saw Jamie (Sam Heughan) and Claire (Caitriona Balfe) reunited with family friend Lord John Grey (David Berry).

A fan favorite, Lord John’s presence has always been a comforting one since David began portraying the character in Season 3, but there’s something concerning under the surface in this latest outing. As tensions flare in the colonies amid revolution, they do as well for Jamie and Lord John, who find themselves positioned on opposing sides, even if they want to be on the same team.

Directed to observe Jamie and report back to the Governor, Josiah Martin, Lord John seeks to learn whether or not Jamie is siding with the rebels. The question leads to disheartening answers for the former red coat who must grapple with the dangerous decision his close friend is making. Sadly, Berry shares, “It’s my only episode for the season,” but a great one at that. Below, the actor opens up about Lord John’s realizations, his allegiance to Jamie, and more.

(Credit: Starz)

It’s always fun seeing Lord John Grey on the show, but this season was a little different than past shows. What was it like working under Covid safety regulations?

David Berry: Well, it was a bit different this time to get the call because I was in Australia. And at the time Australia was in a lockdown and there was no international travel unless it was for essential reasons. So the stakes were a little bit higher for me. It meant leaving the country, which very few Australians got to do, and potentially not being able to get back. And jumping into that from a place of safety was a scary thing. I think we were all in a bit of a state of anxiety. I ended up having to spend a month in isolation, and that was extremely challenging.

The first scene featuring Lord John sees him conversing with Governor Josiah Martin about concerns over Jamie’s loyalties. Is there another reason beyond that for Lord John’s presence in the colonies?

No, I think that’s the only reason. He knows that Jamie’s in danger, especially if the governor is looking into him. Lord John is always going to look out for Jamie, and he knows that he’s in the best place to keep Jamie safe. But Lord John is always a character who’s motivated by the heart too. I think there’s a curiosity in him in the episode about where Jamie sits in his allegiances, and a need to counsel him and understand his machinations of why he is siding potentially with these Sons of Liberty. Because I think at the heart of it, Lord John is very concerned about Jamie’s wellbeing as a person who loves him and cares for him very deeply.

(Credit: Starz)

He does explicitly tell Jamie how dangerous rebelling would be. But is Lord John’s efforts to sway Jamie all about safety or also partly because his own allegiance to the Crown?

Both men are very principled in what they believe, but I also think that Lord John time and again has always forgotten his principles for the sake of love and care for Jamie and his friendship with Jamie. I think he’s looking out for a person that he identifies as also being certainly principled. But because he has that understanding of a friendship with Jamie, I think he feels motivated to shake him out of stubbornness to these principles that are only going to lead to violence. And I think at heart Lord John is really tired — he’s a lover, not a fighter. He doesn’t want conflict. And I think just having an allegiance to the Crown to him just means there’s going to be peace.

We saw the peace disrupted as rebels attacked a printer’s shop for dispatching loyalist fliers. Jamie and Lord John come to the defense of the printer who was only doing his job. Is Jamie’s willingness to stand up for what’s right one of the reasons Lord John’s more accepting of his views?

I think Lord John is able to hold conflicting points of view quite well and see the bigger picture. I think in his mind though, the aggressors are the people who are dissenting against the Crown. He [gives] Jamie his reasons why he thinks that is. I think at that time in history there was violence on both sides, and certainly a lot of it. Lord John has very good and valid reasons for feeling concerned about the conduct of these rebellious groups because it wasn’t a foregone conclusion that America was ever going to come out of it.

I think that Lord John [is worried] that Jamie’s principles might supersede their friendship. Jamie has consistently done that in his relationship with Lord John, which I think at this stage in their friendship is becoming a bit of a bad habit and causing some tension.

(Credit: Starz)

Jamie asks this huge favor of Lord John to delay the red coats from bargaining in on the Sons of Liberty meeting. Why does Lord John agree to hold them back?

Lord John is trying to protect [him]. I think that he feels a great sense of betrayal when Jamie doesn’t [reciprocate]. It’s becoming hard for Lord John to maintain his friendship with him, because Jamie’s constantly putting Lord John’s life at risk, but also his own. And that’s becoming untenable between the two of them. How does Lord John hold this love in his heart for a person that is willing to throw his own [life] away and the care and consideration of his closest friend?

You mentioned before that America wasn’t a forgone conclusion, but based on what Jamie knows of the future, it is. Would Lord John be accepting if Jamie told him the truth about Claire’s time traveling and the future?

I think he would. I think Lord John wouldn’t believe it. I think that would go a ways to mending the friendship, if Jamie was able to trust him with that. He is entrusted with secrets as well. And I think that that’s no barrier to their friendship. Lord John has always extended a deep understanding of Jamie and a willingness to listen and engage him on his level. That’s the level and commitment of love that Lord John has for him.

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The Frasers discuss William with Lord John, who says the boy has taken to politics and history. Would you say that the apple doesn’t fall far from the biological tree?

William is a reflection of Jamie, and because he has qualities that he loves and admires in Jamie, that extends to William. It’s just as simple as sharing those wonderful moments of fatherhood, which is probably painful for Jamie on the one hand. But I think Lord John also feels a tremendous sense of pride. Lord John in a perfect world would love for Jamie to have a relationship with William. And he’d want Jamie to stick around and be there. And if he’s putting himself in danger’s way, then he might not be around for that. So definitely that’s part of his thinking.

Considering Lord John’s willingness to bend his principles for Jamie’s, would he sooner become a traitor for him than stay loyal to the Crown?

In Lord John’s mind, to become a traitor he would have to understand what the benefits of that are and the risks involved. And to him, the risks are inconceivable. They entail violence. They entail potential death. And those are things that he’s not willing to fall upon. He doesn’t hold that strong sense of righteousness that there is something wrong with the colonization of the Americas. And I think that’s something that Jamie has a personal experience of. And I don’t know if Lord John can ever meet Jamie on that level. I think he would always side with his friend, but that’s going to be tested as the relationship moves forward. I think the cost of those things that Jamie wants is just way too high. He just doesn’t believe that there’s any virtue or righteousness to all-out war with Great Britain.

Outlander, Season 6, Sundays, 9/8c, Starz