‘Elsbeth’ Star Wendell Pierce Says Wagner’s Major Decision Is Emotional & Strategic

[Warning: The below contains MAJOR spoilers for Elsbeth Season 1 Episode 9 “Sweet Justice.”]

Revenge may be sweet, but justice? It’s even sweeter and more satisfying. The penultimate episode of the season-long investigation into corruption—Elsbeth (Carrie Preston) was sent to New York to keep an eye on Wagner (Wendell Pierce)—ends with a major arrest.

Wagner is, of course, not corrupt but rather, it turned out, a lieutenant and his close friend, Noonan (Fredric Lehne), was—and using his name! Thanks to a well-placed bug, Elsbeth and Wagner were able to follow him to catch him in the act. But once that was done, Wagner had one last move to make: to tell Elsbeth to return to Chicago.

Below, Pierce breaks down the emotional episode and teases what’s ahead in the finale.

How satisfying was it for Wagner to tell Noonan, “That’s why I got the job and you didn’t”?

Wendell Pierce: Especially with someone who has betrayed me so deeply, it is always good to have a comeuppance and then also to kind of satisfy for the audience members who are following the character to know that he is a man of character, that he is someone who wasn’t corrupt and is not what people may have thought he was. So it was very satisfying.

Elizabeth Fisher / CBS

For Wagner, it’s been one betrayal after another. How angry and how hurt is he about what Noonan did in his name?

Can you imagine someone that was really like family—When you think about it, he has shared so many important parts of his life with him. They’ve come up together, they were partners. They decided to come into the NYPD together. He shared his life. He was his best man at his wedding. He knew his children, held his children at their birth. That is a real deep betrayal that is a grief, really, of losing someone you thought they were, but ultimately they turned out not to be. That’s the deepest betrayal that there is, besides a spouse’s infidelity; this is family betraying you, really, because he was close enough to be considered family.

Is he more hurt or more mad?

Mad right now. I think it’ll turn into hurt a little later, but he is more mad because what happens is when you give someone your trust, that deep of a trust, the betrayal of it can be is just infuriating, beyond infuriating. And so for me, the impulse first is the anger. I think what you see with my wife [Gloria Reuben], is the pain, the hurt. But with Noonan, directly at him is the anger.

It seems like at the end of this episode, Wagner can actually react to the fact that Elsbeth was investigating him behind his back. With her, do you think it’s more hurt or anger?

It’s a real combination. With Elsbeth, it’s like a combination in a boxing ring and you get hit with two great shots. And now that the corruption has been dealt with, now I have to deal with her betrayal, which is, you were here under, in my eyes, nefarious circumstances. I am now dealing with her. So there’s anger there, but also there’s a strategy. One of the things that he’s learned is to try to take his emotion out of making important decisions. That’s always the important thing about being a leader or a commander. So he’s trying to deal with the anger towards Elsbeth in a different way because the one thing he has developed is an appreciation of her abilities and the fact that she, once exposed, fessed up to it and was very helpful in getting to the corruption. But now I have to deal with her betrayal and I think it’s more a strategic decision that he has to make about making sure he takes his anger and puts it aside side and just gets her out of his hair, now gets her back to Chicago. That’s what he really wants. We’ll see how successful he is at that.

He tells her at the end that she can go back to Chicago in. It is partly an emotional response though, just because he can do something now, right?

Oh yeah, there’s definitely emotion in that. And it’s also strategic. He’s trying to put his emotions aside. His emotions would be to file a complaint with the DOJ and try to get her fired. But it is an emotional thing that he’s like, “I want you back to Chicago. This is done now.” But it’s mixed emotions because he knows how good she has been and how helpful she’s been to his detectives. But he wants to get rid of her. And so yes, he’s expressing his anger.

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We know that she’s around for at least one more case. What can you say about Elsbeth and Wagner’s dynamic in the finale?

What you get to see in the finale is that conflicted part of himself of wanting to get rid of her and appreciating the help that she’s given his detectives. But he wants to get rid of her and he can get rid of her and the show can go on with her in Chicago. So that’s something that we have to see, which way is going to come out. Will she stay or will she go? That’s the question because the show goes on—it’s whether it goes on with her in Chicago or in New York.

How is he feeling about trusting anyone at this point?

Being a police commander, the one thing that you know is you put your trust in people, you put your ultimate trust in protocol, right? Protocol and training and your command and laws. And so that’s ultimately the barometer by which you judge people. Are they within the law? Are they within protocol and are they acting on their training? And so there’s always a part of a commander and a leader who is always in judgment of the people that he’s in contact with to kind of keep them on track and keep the entire precinct and the whole operation on track. So there’s always a little reticence in a commander about whether or not he gives out his trust. I think with this, I’m building up another coat of armor really that is going to be a little harder to penetrate in whether or not he trusts people. So you really have to be good at your job or really are committed to a certain point of view or investigating a case saying, this is my theory of what’s happening. It has to be supported by evidence. So I think he’s going to be more demanding on people and it’s going to take a little bit more to get his trust.

It seems that with this episode, the investigation into this corruption has been completely wrapped up. Can you say if it is or if there’s anything coming in the finale?

I think the one thing you have to discover that’s still left to be seen is will we be working together with Elsbeth because that is the decision that he still has to make. There’s still some protocol that has to go on to clear my name. And so the finale of that is still to be seen in the next episode, which is, how will I clear my name and will there be repercussions for Elsbeth in our relationship, not only personally, but when it comes to the department?

Michael Parmelee/CBS

I like that we get more Wagner with his wife in tonight’s episode. And while we haven’t gotten that much, every scene tells us everything we need to know about their relationship. Did Wagner ever suspect that she could have been in any way corrupt?

Not at all. Wagner always knew that she would ultimately be the one that paid the price. She was perfection. She did the best. He even says it: We have done everything right and she has done everything right, and I’m not going to be the one that allows someone from my world to destroy her world. So I never suspected her. She was my place of refuge. She is the person that I admire and love the most. And so that’s why the betrayal is the most painful with her, that I’ve hurt her. And that’s the thing that I love about the scenes with her in tonight’s episode. In this episode, you get to see how hurtful it was for our relationship and that’s where you see the betrayal have its most hurtful impact on Wagner because it hurt his relationship with his wife.

What are you hoping to explore with Wagner in Season 2?

That’s the great thing. We have an infinite amount of possibilities. I’d love to explore more with my wife. There’s all sorts of different ways of expanding the investigations. I’d love to trust and build a relationship with all the different detectives that you’ve seen, kind of my team, and the way that they investigate things. And I’m sure that we are going to have to call on Elsbeth, whether she is within the department or outside the department as a consultant in a way. And so I’m looking forward to just really expanding on how we are able to do our investigations. And then also I’m sure there’s going to be ongoing tensions—however we decide to work together—with Elsbeth, of the yin and yang of someone that you don’t trust at times, but you really admire their skill. And so that’s the tension and the conflict that Wagner has with Elsbeth. I’m looking forward to that where she can actually help me in being the better investigator that I want to be.

Do you have a favorite guest star from this season?

No, that’s really tough. That’s like, which kid do you love the most? …  That’s one of the exciting things about the show. Every week you get to see this amazing guest star and it’s almost like little mini movie of the week. And so that’s the thing that we are so happy about the show and is so enjoyable about show. I think the opportunity to see people, guest stars that you admire, that have really made their names come and do something, a murder mystery show, a murder mystery movie, from week to week is wonderful. And even folks who may miss an episode know that they can come back and there’s a great little crime mystery movie every week on CBS, which is great. And it’s called Elsbeth.

Elsbeth, Season 1 Finale, Thursday, May 23, 9/8c, CBS

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